Posts by Disillusioned JW

31

If only someone had kicked my a$$.. (This is post is not for theists)

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i think back on the 30+ years of bs as well as my fading almost a decade and even now being low key in person to hopefully save my nieces from the wt.

i'm a wreck in some ways.

i'm other days i'm stable however when it comes to theism i depart quickly and with anger!

Disillusioned JW

HowTheBibleWasCreated, I would like to know more about your book. Would you mind telling me what topics are in your book? Is your book aimed specifically at getting JWs to give up biblical beliefs or at Christians in general to give up such? Is the planned title of your book called "How The Bible Was Created" and is your book based largely upon your research of archaeology in regards to the Bible?

From time to time I have been writing a book aimed at convincing believers in supernaturalism, especially theologically conservative Bible believing Christians (especially ones who have some doubts), to become atheistic philosophical naturalists. I hope that my book will have a greater impact than the God Delusion book and than books by John W. Loftus (author of Why I Became an Atheist: A Former Preacher Rejects Christianity), though I realize it is unlikely my book will become that successful.

I relate to you wishing someone many years ago had attempted to show you that the JW religion and other ideas were false. Shortly before I ended up becoming baptized, while I was a college bound student in a polytechnic high school, my physics and chemistry teachers (known Christians) - teachers I highly looked up to - made a joint statement within my science class saying they investigated the theory of evolution and determined it is false, I asked two teachers (ones I highly looked up to, one being my electronics teacher and the other might have been my biology teacher) if they thought evolution was true. I asked them to get a second opinion about evolution as a scientific theory, to see if they disagreed with my physics teacher and my chemistry teacher. They became very angry and said the law forbids them to discuss with students their views about evolution (I guess they were Christian creationists). As result of those experiences, coupled with numerous anti-evolution articles in the WT Society literature at around that time, I decided not to research the idea any further that evolution might be true. Those experiences were around the time I became baptized. Later on, from time to time I wondered if evolution is true. (I loved science and I knew most scientists were convinced that evolution is true, I saw some science shows on PBS which taught about evolution [but none of those shows I saw tried to prove evolution is true, they instead took it as a given that evolution is true], and I subscribed to a science magazine for three years and it had some articles supporting evolution which caused me to wonder if evolution is true.) While in high school, before getting baptized, I sometimes thought of looking for pro-atheism literature to see what it said, but heavy indoctrination by the WT literature made me too scared to do so (the WT warned that such literature is full of deception). It wasn't until I stopped believing in the JW version of Christianity that I started reading pro-atheism books and looking up the quotes the WT literature made of evolutionist scientists' science articles and books.

26

Being Reinstated

by azl0058 in

so my brother recently became df.

he has full intentions of being reinstated, but it is going to take at least a year.

if the end times occurs while he is df, will he still be allowed in the kingdom of god?.

Disillusioned JW

azl0058, regarding your df brother does he have any doubts at all about the WT/JW religion? If he does, and if he knows you don't believe in it (or maybe you do believe in it), you could tell him he can use his df state to read 'apostate literature' and other sources to see if maybe the religion is false, even to see if the Bible is false (such as in regarding to a worldwide flood). Since he is already disfellowshipped they can't do anything further to him (other than block him from being reinstated if they think he has turned apostate). Perhaps he would be willing to read books and articles by evolutionist scientists that present evidence for biological evolution. What do you think about that?

72

How many TRUE BELIEVERS do you think are left in the Organization?

by pistolpete in

i have a few jw relatives who are true believers.

by this i mean, they believe with all their heart that 1914 was the beginning of the last days, that this is the last generation, that we are in the very last of the last hour of this system of things, and that you should obey the governing body even if it does not make sense.

all of them are in their 60s and up into their 90s there is nothing you can say or show them to convince them or even cause a small doubt that the wt is not god organization.

Disillusioned JW

I can conceive of the the JW/WT religion greatly modifying their shunning doctrine, mainstreaming their teaching about blood, and dropping the doctrine about 1914. I can also conceive of them dropping the teaching that the last days began in a specified year, but I can't conceive of them ceasing to teach that human society is living in the last days. That is because at their core the JW's are essentially semi-fundamentalist premillennialist apocalyptic evangelizing Christians who believe the Bible basically means what it says - and portions of the NT Bible say that the last days had already begun by the first century CE. [Though, some parts of the NT can be interpreted as saying that the last days for the world in general (not specifically for Jerusalem or Judea) would begin sometime after the 1st century CE.]

If they drop the 1914 teaching I can also see them teaching that Christ has not become king yet (other than over the Christian congregation and over those they believe are in heaven), but even that would be very hard for them. It would be very radical for them to drop the teaching that Christ has already become the king/ruler of planet Earth.

It would be easier for me to conceive of them teaching that theistic evolution (or evolutionary creationism) is consistent with the Bible's teachings, then it is for me to conceive of them ceasing to teach about the last days. Br. Russell in at least one of his old books said Jehovah might have used evolution to create nonhuman life (but not for human life since Genesis chapter two says Jehovah fashioned Adam from dirt).

13

NWT released in modern Hebrew

by Wonderment in

on february 21, 2020, the wt society made the announcement in their website of the release of the new world translation in modern hebrew (hebrew scriptures - "tanakh") in haifa, israel.

now, the complete nwt is available in modern hebrew.. some time ago, a poster here said that releasing (in theory, i.e.

) the hebrew bible in a modern version, such as the nwt, would be irrational.

Disillusioned JW

If the WT's Hebrew Bible has the divine name in it with the proper vowel points (the ones for Yahweh (instead of for Jehovah), the devout Jews reading it will be greatly offended, since they are instructed not to pronounce the name Yahweh.

12

Jehovah's Witnesses Started By Christiandom

by mrquik in

a little background first.

my first father- in-law, levi peterson was born in 1889. he personally knew rutherford.

he started the newark, ny congregation.

Disillusioned JW

The Catholic monk was actually correct in using the letters JHVH, that is because in the Latin language (and even in the later German language) those letters are pronounced the same as the letters YHWH are pronounced in modern English. As the for the vowels, the monk (not being a practicing Jew) made an honest mistake. The vowels were the equivalent to the Hebrew vowel points written in the divine name in the those copies of the Hebrew Scriptures that have vowel points. What the monk didn't know is that in regards to the divine name the vowel points in the Hebrew text for the divine name are for the vowels of Adonai (Lord), and maybe sometimes Elohim (God), and that it was to remind Jewish religious readers of the text to not pronounce the divine name, but to say Adonai (Lord) or maybe Elohim (God) instead.

24

What to do with old publications

by TonyMorronTheTurd in

hi guys,.

it's been a while since i posted here, but i feel like posting again.. it's hard sometimes to find the energy to post here after i expend all my time working a full time job and pretending i care about the wt$ at the same time.. i've been trying to slowly wake my girlfriend up ever since i first posted here, and i must say it is a long waiting game that i am playing right now.

almost all my efforts are dismissed and i've been slowly losing hope.. anyways, what i meant to really post here today is about old publications.. honestly anything that has to do with the watchtower and jdubs, as of recently makes me feel like vomiting.

Disillusioned JW

Besides the WT books I listed in an earlier post, I'm also keeping bound volumes of the WT for the years 1993 - 1999, largely because some of them include major doctrinal changes - changes which convinced me I was better off studying the Bible on my own than exclusively using WT literature for Bible study. I also keep the hardcover WT publications indexes for the years 1930 - 1985 and 1986 -2000 and I have the WT Library 1995 and 1999 CD-ROMs. Having the CD-ROMs makes up for most of the WT publications I sold off on eBay and they will make up for many of those I intend to sell later.

I obtained hardly any WT literature published since the year 2001 since it was around the year 2001 that I essentially stopped attending all JW meetings. It was also around that year that I began my own independent critical thinking of the WT's publications in earnest, and when I began studying the Bible independently in earnest, using multiple English translations of the Bible (including study Bibles) and eventually also using some commentaries and Bible dictionaries produced by 'Christendom'. Eventually I also began studying atheistic web pages and atheist books critical of the Bible and of Christianity.

36

What useful piece of literature have the JW produced?

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

seeing on another post here about former jws throwing away literature.

i am curious as to the various opinions on there value.. for me i have been inactive for 3 years almost 4. i still have alot of books and of course all their bibles ever produced (except a few from the 1800s.).

in my opinion i think there are four books the jws produced that are useful:.

Disillusioned JW

Page 88 of the Proclaimers book shows part of the front cover of the paperback book/booklet called "Millions Now Living Will Never Die".

Look at the artifact of the Proclamation shown on page 427 of the Proclaimers book. I can actually read many of its words by using a high powered magnifying glass. It says in part "... we are opposed to fraud and deception being practiced upon the people by the misrepresentation of the Word of God or otherwise." Those words condemn some of the content of some of the WT's literature!

36

What useful piece of literature have the JW produced?

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

seeing on another post here about former jws throwing away literature.

i am curious as to the various opinions on there value.. for me i have been inactive for 3 years almost 4. i still have alot of books and of course all their bibles ever produced (except a few from the 1800s.).

in my opinion i think there are four books the jws produced that are useful:.

Disillusioned JW

Regarding the 'millions now living will never die' doctrine, I at one time had an edition of Rutherford's "Harp of God" book *(which I purchased from an eBay auction) which had the subtitle of "Proof Conclusive That Millions Now Living Will Never Die".

36

What useful piece of literature have the JW produced?

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

seeing on another post here about former jws throwing away literature.

i am curious as to the various opinions on there value.. for me i have been inactive for 3 years almost 4. i still have alot of books and of course all their bibles ever produced (except a few from the 1800s.).

in my opinion i think there are four books the jws produced that are useful:.

Disillusioned JW

Regarding the connection between the "Second Adventists" and the "Advent Christians" see what one of the Advent Christians himself says at https://www.adventchristianvoices.com/blog/2018/2/1/advent-christians-in-the-21st-century-part-1-looking-back .

36

What useful piece of literature have the JW produced?

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

seeing on another post here about former jws throwing away literature.

i am curious as to the various opinions on there value.. for me i have been inactive for 3 years almost 4. i still have alot of books and of course all their bibles ever produced (except a few from the 1800s.).

in my opinion i think there are four books the jws produced that are useful:.

Disillusioned JW

I am also keeping a number of the books you list. The following are the WT books I am keeping (at least for now):

1) "New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - with References" (Revised 1984) 'study' Bible and the NWT compilation 'study' Bible of 1963 (it was compilation of the 1950-1960 volumes of the original NWT) bound into one cover and was thus the predecessor of the 1984 'study' Bible. See page 608 of the Proclaimers' book for a photo of the 1963 book.

2) "Jehovah's Witnesses -- Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" and the predecessor book from 1959 called "Jehovah's Witnesses In The Divine Purpose". These books reveal some of the origins of the JW religion and the latter makes strong doctrinal statements which the religion has now abandoned. In effect the latter book condemns some of the practices/teachings of the current WT literature. The Proclaimers book led to me researching the early second adventists and its offshoots (some of which still exist), including the Advent Christian Church, the Church of God (Seventh Day), and the Church of God (Abrahamic Faith).

3) "Did Man Get Here By Evolution Or By Creation?" (from 1967), "Life--How did it get here? By evolution or by creation?", and the brochures called "Was Life Created?" and "The Origin Of Life - Five Questions Worth Asking". These are very useful to me because they include quotes of evolutionist scientists and the sources of those quotes. Many of the scientific publications quoted from are very interesting and overwhelmingly make the case for biological evolution and chemical evolution. Those sources also provide scientific explanations for a number of perceived problems of evolution theory. In many cases I would never have learned of those scientific articles and books had I not seen them listed in the WT publications.

Likewise the book called "Is There a Creator Who Cares About You? is useful since it mentions the name of a number of important evolutionist scientists and quote from them, though frustratingly often without mentioning the publication sources of the quotes. I manged, with great effort, to determine the sources for a great many of the quotes and in doing so I learned a great deal about the evidence for cosmological evolution, chemical evolution, and biological evolution. A primary source for many of the quotes was an evangelical apologetic book (which argued from design using science [the main title of the book is called "Show Me God" and it is the first edition which the WT quoted from; in a later edition the author says he now accepts evolution and believes that the Christian God used it). The "Show Me God" book is written by a science journalist (Fred Heeren). The book accepts the big bang and an old universe and it includes many interviews of evolutionist scientists. Learning of those scientists which were interviewed helped me to then research the ideas of those scientists to learn more. In an email to me, Fred Heeren says that in addition to promoting belief in the Christian God he now also promotes evolution.

4) The KJV Reference Bible and the ASV Bible printed by the WT. Those are useful books of very low cost, but now I prefer to use a leather reference edition of the KJV (with an illustrated encyclopedic Concordance) by Oxford and a leather reference edition of the ASV (with an illustrated Bible dictionary and a Concordance) by Thomas Nelson.

5) Comprehensive Concordance of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures". My copy of this is the edition from 1973 and is specifically for the 1971 large print (with footnotes) edition of the NWT, but it also works great for all editions of the NWT up through at least the 2013 (printing) edition. Maybe the WT later revised it to produce an edition optimized for the 1984 Reference of the NWT or for the most recent edition.

6) "Theocratic Ministry School Guidebook" and "Qualified to be Ministers" (from 1955). The latter is a predecessor to the former and it includes a history of the JW religion. Also the "1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses" includes a history of the JW religion. The first two books have good content for public speaking. The history contained in the latter two books is informative.

7) "Mankind's Search for God" and "What Has Religion Done for Mankind" (from 1951). The latter is a predecessor of the former. Reading what these books said about Buddhism peaked my interest in them and contributed to me seeking information about secular Buddhism.

8) "Happiness How to Find It" and related books about happiness by the WT.

9) "From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained" (from 1958) and "The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life" (1968). I keep these books because they (and the "Listening to the Great Teacher" (1971) were the ones I studied in home Bible study as a child (with my JW father teaching me from them) before I got baptized as a JW. Those books along with the 1971 edition of the NWT and the Evolution book of 1967 were the primary books which led to me making the mistake of becoming a baptized JW. [Certain WT articles and Awake! articles critical of evolution theory also sadly influenced me to become a baptized JW.] They thus help me to see how I was duped by the WT. The first two doctrinal books also contain teachings which the WT later abandoned and thus are helpful in seeing that the WT's claim of the GB of the JWs being especially used by Jehovah (Yahweh), above all others, is a false claim. I also keep the "You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth" book since I studied it a lot after I became baptized and thus it heavily influenced my thinking and it is a reminder of how I was influenced.

10) Bound volumes of the Awake! from 1966 - 2005. I keep them because they contain articles about science. Prior to about the year 2010 I owned less than 5 science books (though I had a 3 year subscription to a science magazine) and thus the Awake! articles on science were of great interest to me (though those articles are very simplified).

11) Revelation - Its Grand Climax At Hand! (1988). I keep that book because it is the first JW book that led to me starting to disbelieve the JW religion - when I was studying it one year in the congregational book studies! I thought it was nonsense that the religion's proclamations/resolutions of the 1920s were fulfillments of (or even in coordination with) the trumpet blasts mentioned in the biblical book of Revelation.

12) Reasoning from the Scriptures (1989 edition). It was informative for me to read the evolutionist sources quoted in the subject called "Evolution". I wish I had done that prior to 1990 for if I had I would have ceased activity as a JW a great many years earlier than I did, and I would have seen the problems with the book's counter arguments about evolution.

13) Commentary on the Letter of James

14) True Peace and Security--How Can You find It? (1986). [It is a replacement of "True Peace and Security - From What Source? (1973) which I studied (though with no interest) in congregational meetings as a preteen prior to my baptism.] It is a reminder of the WT's flawed thinking that trapped me into remaining a convinced JW for so long. It also contains citations for a number of quotes and if I had looked up some them a long time ago it would have helped me to disbelieve the JW religion much earlier than I did. Some examples are the quotes in ph. 18 of page 30.

I had thought of keeping the Insight on the Scriptures - Volumes 1 and 2 (which are a revision and expansion of the "Aid to Bible Understanding" of 1971) and the Aid book but I almost never used them and now that I am an atheist I have even less interest in term, thus I will likely sell them. I have Bible dictionaries made by 'Christendom' which I am keeping for now since they include some comments critical of portions of the Bible. I obtained the Aid Book from a thrift store in 2006. I do like what the Aid book says in the entry under "Epicureans" in regards to the similarity with modern deism, [philosophical] materialism, and the idea of "God is dead". It is also interesting what the Aid book and vol. 2 of the Insight book say under the heading of "Stoics".

For awhile I had an interest in the Kingdom Interlinear (both editions) and the WT edition of the Emphatic Diaglott, but not such much now, since I now have little interest in comparing various English translations of the NT with the the Greek text of the NT and with interlinear translations of that text. I also have no interest in Byington's translation of the Bible.